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November 14, 2024, 06:48:49 PM
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[Politics/Religion] EPIC fail...

 
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: [Politics/Religion] EPIC fail...
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2009, 08:14:33 PM »

Blader's father reminds me of Tomas Larkin (name the book for bonus points.)  Blind and crippled from diabetes and ended it with the bottle of potcheen he kept under the mattress.  I've always said I want to go out in like fashion when the time comes even if it means they bury me in unconsecrated ground.  Oh, not Catholic any more.  Never mind.

Good points made here but there's definitely a difference between the family "getting it" and the system "dictating it."
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Re: [Politics/Religion] EPIC fail...
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2009, 09:52:27 PM »

 
 


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Re: [Politics/Religion] EPIC fail...
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 06:46:21 AM »


Good points made here but there's definitely a difference between the family "getting it" and the system "dictating it."

The problem is that very few families get it, especially when someone else is footing the bill.  But who gets to make the decision?  Not somebody with a financial stake in the outcome.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] EPIC fail...
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 07:38:10 AM »

Blader's father reminds me of Tomas Larkin (name the book for bonus points.)  Blind and crippled from diabetes and ended it with the bottle of potcheen he kept under the mattress.  I've always said I want to go out in like fashion when the time comes even if it means they bury me in unconsecrated ground.  Oh, not Catholic any more.  Never mind.

Good points made here but there's definitely a difference between the family "getting it" and the system "dictating it."

The default mode of our system dictates continuation of care until death, and that won't ever change because it is the ethical and humane way to do it.  It is absolutely absurd to even think that nurses and physicians would ever act as agents of state-imposed herd culls.

If an old person shows up in the ER with something nasty, without any prior living will or any do not resuscitate directive, EVERYTHING will be done to continue that life.  It is the complete opposite of dictating withdrawal of care.  In fact, even if the patient is fully awake and seems to have his wits about him and asks for everybody to stop, they won't stop.  Treatment is only withdrawn when that patient proves to the medical staff that he's made the decision without duress.  The standard of proof for that is high under normal circumstances, and gets even higher when the patient is in crisis mode.

If the backlash is really about self-control of one's fate, individual american freedom from state control and whatnot, then there should be a run on living wills because that's the only way to have absolute control.  From what little I know about this brouhaha, proposals in the new legislation includes provisions for insured access to social workers and others who can assist people with end of life decisions and declarations.

My dad was lucky to have myself and a couple of nurses in the family who know a little about this. Once it was obvious he was prepared to make some decisions, we were able to get him and my mom through the process.  All we did was help them get themselves educated about the issues so they could make up their own minds.  It was very interesting to watch how they were empowered and grew confident by the new things they were learning.
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