Strange, Green make Golf Hall of Fame

[Seamus]

 

[Uisce Beatha]

I tried to play point counter point with Uisce.

But he refuses to just say "Seamie you ignorant *trollop*".

My .02 cents...Monty's in w/o winning a major, point system or not.

Well, like I said, it's all about opinions.  I enjoy hearing where people stand and, you never know, perhaps mine will be changed by your points.

But just cuz I won't argue with you doesn't mean I think you're Nancy Drew.   

No to Monty though.  I'm solid on that.  It's all about the majors baby.  The great ones win majors.  That's where golf is different.  Dan Marino belongs in the HOF without a Super Bowl victory.  That's clear.  You can't do it alone in football and the other team sports.  In golf, you HAVE to do it alone and Monty couldn't quite do it.  Came close a few times and is clearly a fantastic player but best of his generation?  No, I don't think so.

[Dunk]

Actually I believe Monty WAS the best player of his generation in Europe.  I don't think anyone comes close to his achievements.


For the record, in order to enter the WGHOF, a player needs 10 PGA Tour wins or two wins in the majors or Players Championship.

There are a lot of players that meet that criteria, but aren't anywhere near being in the "best of a generation" category. 

By the way, players outside the USA/PGA Tour need to accumulate 50 points.
Cumulative 50 points earned as follows:

6 points – Major victories
4 points – Players Championship win
3 points – Other PGA Tour win, European Tour win
2 points – Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, PGA Tour of Australasia, Champions Tour win
1 point – Other national championship win; Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup participation

[Uisce Beatha]

Actually I believe Monty WAS the best player of his generation in Europe.  I don't think anyone comes close to his achievements.

Emphasis added...   

Best in Europe doesn't necessarily mean best in the world (although it can and has).  Regardless I wouldn't even agree with that. 

Nick Faldo's six years older than Monty and their careers, from first win to last win, overlapped by roughly that.  He has six majors to Monty's zero.  27 Euro Tour wins to Monty's 30.  Nine US Tour wins to Monty's zero.  Seven "other" wins to Monty's eight. 

Monty couldn't get it done in the majors and he couldn't get it done on the US Tour.  Granted, the Euro Tour is not full of stiffs but I think anyone would agree the US Tour is deeper/stronger/whatever and to some degree it's that way because many of Europe's top players have been members over here. 

Monty's easily the top "tier two" guy of the past two decades.  But, IMO, he's not the best of the best.  That's my "criteria" for the HOF and, in golf, that means majors.

Think about it.  They add, let's say on average, two male golfers every year.   That's twenty a decade or forty over the course of a career.  Now granted they're playing catch-up from eons ago but discounting for that they're saying that there are a dozen or two "greatest of a generation" golfers out there all the time (I know, that's my standard not theirs).  I just don't see it the same way.



In no way is this post meant to be a knock on the European Tour.

[Seamus]

The thing I don't like about Uisce's hall of fame is that there is no room for people like Harry Cooper and Ch-eye Ch-eye Rodrigweez.

Or Tommy Bolt or Chick Evans or Lawson Little or Gene Littler.

And what about someone like Charlie Sifford or Lee Elder or Ted Rhodes who were really never given a chance to be the best player of a generation?

I propose a special wing for Uber Major Accomplishments, we'll call it the Uisce Wing.   

[Uisce Beatha]

The thing I don't like about Uisce's hall of fame is that there is no room for people like Harry Cooper and Ch-eye Ch-eye Rodrigweez.

Or Tommy Bolt or Chick Evans or Lawson Little or Gene Littler.

And what about someone like Charlie Sifford or Lee Elder or Ted Rhodes who were really never given a chance to be the best player of a generation?

I propose a special wing for Uber Major Accomplishments, we'll call it the Uisce Wing.   

Sure, why not.  Already there.   

The World Golf Hall of Fame is home to the game's greatest players and contributors. Membership is, quite simply, golf's highest honor. Those recognized within the Hall of Fame represent individuals who have positively impacted the game of golf on the grandest scale. Golfers, both professional and amateur, architects, journalists, innovators and teachers are among those celebrated within the World Golf Hall of Fame.

But if you're going to make it as a player it should be because of what you did on the course.  Some of the gentlemen you mentioned battled racism and didn't have the opportunities afforded others.  There's a place for them among the greatest contributors but not the greatest players.

Sure, there's cross-over especially when you go back to guys who essentially created professional golf or the Senior Tour out of nothing.  They might deserve a spot - but not as players only and that's what we're really dealing with when talking about the names that have popped up on this thread.

Those recognized within the Hall of Fame represent individuals who have positively impacted the game of golf on the grandest scale.

Does this describe Curtis Strange?   

[Seamus]

Quote
Those recognized within the Hall of Fame represent individuals who have positively impacted the game of golf on the grandest scale.
Does this describe Curtis Strange?

For that matter does it describe Seve? Or Johnny Miller?

Some of the gentlemen you mentioned battled racism and didn't have the opportunities afforded others.  There's a place for them among the greatest contributors but not the greatest players.

You lost me on this one, if you're going allow the black golfers I mentioned in the hall of fame as contributors (Sifford is already in), then Strange and Green could fall under the same category. With all due respect your hall is too restrictive.

You can't do it alone in football and the other team sports.  In golf, you HAVE to do it alone.

I've been thinking about this quote, indulge me for a wee bit and list as many difficult individual sports as you can. Winning the Tour de France...Difficult, Winning the World Series of Darts...Not terribly difficult. I bow to Websters definition:dif·fi·cult –adjective-
1. not easily or readily done; requiring much labor, skill, or planning to be performed successfully; hard.

[Uisce Beatha]

Quote
Those recognized within the Hall of Fame represent individuals who have positively impacted the game of golf on the grandest scale.
Does this describe Curtis Strange?

For that matter does it describe Seve? Or Johnny Miller?

Seve, absolutely.  Johnny, I think probably but I'd entertain arguments to the contrary.. 

Some of the gentlemen you mentioned battled racism and didn't have the opportunities afforded others.  There's a place for them among the greatest contributors but not the greatest players.

You lost me on this one, if you're going allow the black golfers I mentioned in the hall of fame as contributors (Sifford is already in), then Strange and Green could fall under the same category. With all due respect your hall is too restrictive.

Sifford and Elder broke down barriers.  They excelled under difficult circumstances.  Are they easily HOF material?  I don't know the answer to that.  Before my time and I haven't read much about them.  But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I remember most/all of Strange's career.  Back-to-back Opens is impressive but other than that nothing knocks my socks off.

You can't do it alone in football and the other team sports.  In golf, you HAVE to do it alone.

I've been thinking about this quote, indulge me for a wee bit and list as many difficult individual sports as you can. Winning the Tour de France...Difficult, Winning the World Series of Darts...Not terribly difficult. I bow to Websters definition:dif·fi·cult –adjective-
1. not easily or readily done; requiring much labor, skill, or planning to be performed successfully; hard.

I'm not following you on this but I'll throw out swimming, track and field, skiing of all disciplines...  The list is long I think.  Does that support a point you're going to slam me with?   

[Seamus]

Quotes:
WJB:Those recognized within the Hall of Fame represent individuals who have positively impacted the game of golf on the grandest scale. Does this describe Curtis Strange?
CD:For that matter does it describe Seve? Or Johnny Miller?
WJB:Seve, absolutely.

I just want to be clear counselor that we are talking about the same Severiano Ballesteros that allegedly rattles coins and coughs when members of the US Ryder cup team were putting?

Does that support a point you're going to slam me with?

I hope I wouldn't even if I could.

Think of it more like, "Inherit the Wind" with you as William Jennings Bryan and me as Clarence Darrow, I'm just trying to mount a logical rebuttal to your "1 Golf Major and 20 Professional non major golf wins does not a hall of famer make".
Shall we stop?

[Uisce Beatha]

Shall we stop?

Sure, why not.   

Again, this subject is COMPLETELY subjective and I can't see how it might be framed otherwise.  No matter how much I disagree with other opinions obviously they are all valid opinions.   Just as is mine and it is, I should hope, recognized as such.

[Aske]

neither of them deserve it.

[Seamus]

No takers on this?  I can go for hours on this subject.