"they did it too" [Big Auto Detroit]

[birdymaker]

What really happened is that GM in particular abandoned the subcompact and small truck segment of the market when they found out that people would buy really fancy large trucks if they put  cupholders and leather seats in them. It made fantastic short term economic sense, because the margins were enormous in these types of vehicles. The fact that they spent the next decade and a half working on not much more than cupholders and nicer leather interiors wasn't really any concern of anybody's.

It's a prime example one of the problems with postmodern American style capitalism, which puts way, way too much emphasis on annual and even quarterly gains, especially in top-tier executive pay.

if in short term you mean 20 years. 

[Clive]

I always thought Detroit dominated the SUV and large-truck market because Big Japan couldn't make a competitive model.  It's not like Big Japan didn't want to sell more large, high-margin vehicles ... folks just like the F-150 and Explorer much, much more.

Now the pendulum swings back to cars, and especially to fuel-efficient cars.  And that's where Big Japan has held its edge this whole time.

Not that GM couldn't have spent a little more effort on their smaller cars ... but just how agile do you expect a $200,000,000/year company to be?

[Aske]

Not that GM couldn't have spent a little more effort on their smaller cars ... but just how agile do you expect a $200,000,000/year company to be?

$200B you mean?     well, if they were operating in the regime of toyota, they would have about $15B they could use towards retooling.... heh.

anyways, while i'm not exactly sure what the r+d budget on 1 great new quality, fuel efficient car is,  i'm sure it's at least one order of magnitude smaller than the $40B they lost last year....

[Clive]

I just looked down, and there are three zeros lying on the floor here. 


I don't know, but I'm guessing they've done non-trivial market research on what consumers are looking for, both generally and in a US-made car.  For all we know, the "I want to buy US" crowd specifically wants those thick, heavy doors and flat, unsupportive seats.

As for powerplants, I can't understand why the US companies haven't invested in a serious project.  Geez, buy a Civic, a Corolla, a Camry, an Accord; take the engines apart and study the Villegas out of them; then make one that incorporates their best features.  And develop from there.  There's no shame in building on success, even when it belongs to someone else.  That's how innovation happens.

[Aske]

As for powerplants, I can't understand why the US companies haven't invested in a serious project.  Geez, buy a Civic, a Corolla, a Camry, an Accord; take the engines apart and study the Villegas out of them; then make one that incorporates their best features.  And develop from there.  There's no shame in building on success, even when it belongs to someone else.  That's how innovation happens.

[MidwayJ]

Now the pendulum swings back to cars, and especially to fuel-efficient cars.  And that's where Big Japan has held its edge this whole time.

I agree.  Big Japan already kicked Detroit to the curb on small cars in the 70's and 80's.  But Detroit could have been doing more to develop a better small car while the high margin SUV's were rolling off the lots.

[MFAWG]

I always thought Detroit dominated the SUV and large-truck market because Big Japan couldn't make a competitive model.  It's not like Big Japan didn't want to sell more large, high-margin vehicles ... folks just like the F-150 and Explorer much, much more.

Now the pendulum swings back to cars, and especially to fuel-efficient cars.  And that's where Big Japan has held its edge this whole time.

Not that GM couldn't have spent a little more effort on their smaller cars ... but just how agile do you expect a $200,000,000/year company to be?

They weren't a  high margin proposition for the Japanese. Only Toyota built anything resembling a full size body on frame truck, and none of them built a V8 engine of any kind until the middle 90's. They basically had to start from scratch, where Detroit had been building basically the same sleds since the middle 60's.