Aske
Lederhosen
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DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« on: October 12, 2009, 07:54:18 AM » |
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century. -- Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka |
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Walfredo
Straitjacket
Karma: 18 Posts: 2013
OfflinePaintin the town brown
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 09:54:27 AM » |
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party like its 1999
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For hither not, I am the stallion.
Come fear, come love, I am the stallion.
You know that I am the stallion, mang.
I am, I am the stallion, mang.
You know that I am the stallion, mang.
I live, I walk, I am the stallion, mang.
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stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
Karma: 155 Posts: 16135
OfflineWe're doomed!
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 10:36:13 AM » |
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We'll see.
Today's snow on the ground here could drastically effect FCOJ futures.
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birdymaker
Straitjacket From: a third world country in the making
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 11:00:47 AM » |
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And nothing could be more meaningless for the average American.
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women are like tornados. In the beginning there's a lot of sucking and blowing. In the end, the car's gone, the house is gone..
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MFAWG
Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 12:06:04 PM » |
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We'll see.
Today's snow on the ground here could drastically effect FCOJ futures.
Jamie Lee Curtis' boobies surrender! |
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9511
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 10:05:35 PM » |
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Beef jerky time!  |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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Spanky
Full Metal Jacket
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 10:00:39 AM » |
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Not today
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hobbit
Tartan Jacket From: The Shire
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 01:12:36 PM » |
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And nothing could be more meaningless for the average American.
Its not meaningless at all - the average American has plenty invested in the market in 401k funds. People nearing retirement age are paying close close attention. But, jobs mean a whole lot more and they lag a market recovery by several months or a year. So - we ain't 'there' yet. |
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I've gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here.
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birdymaker
Straitjacket From: a third world country in the making
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 05:20:36 PM » |
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And nothing could be more meaningless for the average American.
Its not meaningless at all - the average American has plenty invested in the market in 401k funds. People nearing retirement age are paying close close attention. But, jobs mean a whole lot more and they lag a market recovery by several months or a year. So - we ain't 'there' yet. Less than 50% of Americans have a 401k. Half of those have either raided their 401k to save their house or sold their remaining market holdings and ran screaming to money markets in the last year. These days the stock markets are a reflection of profits on products manufactured in any country but here. Not to mention the fact that the market resurgence has nothing to do with profits at all. If it wasn't for big ticket items such as aircraft, automobiles and military spending virtually none of the stock market would be reflective of American made products. To the average American, the NYSE and the NASDAQ are a mirage. They are the companies that Chinese people work for. |
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women are like tornados. In the beginning there's a lot of sucking and blowing. In the end, the car's gone, the house is gone..
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MFAWG
Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 10:29:32 PM » |
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But, jobs mean a whole lot more and they lag a market recovery by several months or a year. So - we ain't 'there' yet. Oddly, I haven't seen the acres of newsprint or hours of bandwidth spent by the Right Wing Noise Machine pointing this out during this recovery that I did during either Bush 'Jobless Recovery'. Wonder why that is? I commend you for being realistic and consistent. Next section NSFWingtards. Stop reading now. Its not meaningless at all - the average American has plenty invested in the market in 401k funds. This is the same bull*feces* argument the wingnuts made when speculators drove the price of a barrel of oil to 160 bucks and over. It was bull*feces* then, it's bull*feces* now. It's not that it isn't 'True', it's that the economic pain and suffering inflicted on the middle class is in no, way, shape, or form offset more than minimally by any gains they make in their 401k's or IRA's. The real joke is that as soon as the bubble bursts (and supply side bubbles ALWAYS burst, some more catastrophically than others) even those minimal gains are washed away like grains of sand facing an ocean of greed, usually taking part of the initial investment away with it. It's time to put 'Trickle Down' aside. That *feces* does not work, and we have 30 years of epic fail for the average American to point at to prove it. UNFORTUNATELY: It's become so ingrained in the economic thinking and policies of America, it's probably going to take a while to put it where it belongs. So, we're stuck with cheering a number that doesn't REALLY matter to most people. |
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 10:56:23 PM by MFAWG »
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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hobbit
Tartan Jacket From: The Shire
Karma: 27 Posts: 1823
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 11:34:36 PM » |
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Well... I'd hate to live with the depression some of you do.
401k programs and other market investments make more money for retirement than any other mainstream investments. THAT is not meaningless is my point. And yes, these retirement programs are own by 'average Americans'. Its not a mirage at all.
I never claimed they would help you now, I never claimed a 'majority' of Americans benefited. Its not as important as the unemployment rate, but its not meaningless either - a simple point is all.
As for the arguments of wingnuts, I'm afraid I don't pay that much attention to such things. The market has downturns, but generates more upturn activity over the long term. This is what makes it a good investment. Sure, you do not want to suffer a downturn when you are about to 'cash out' so precautions should be taken as you approach retirement - but this is common sense. When I look at the markets and other retirement programs, its easy to see the *feces* DOES work.
If it makes you feel better to rant on this forum I guess I should allow you that, but it would be wrong to let people believe its fact.
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I've gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here.
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birdymaker
Straitjacket From: a third world country in the making
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 03:12:34 AM » |
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Well... I'd hate to live with the depression some of you do.
401k programs and other market investments make more money for retirement than any other mainstream investments. THAT is not meaningless is my point. And yes, these retirement programs are own by 'average Americans'. Its not a mirage at all.
I never claimed they would help you now, I never claimed a 'majority' of Americans benefited. Its not as important as the unemployment rate, but its not meaningless either - a simple point is all.
You seem to be confusing " The average American" with "The top half of middle America". Let me put it this way. When i walk out my front door and stand on my porch i can see approximately 20 houses that are owned by the occupant. Of these I can guarantee that no more than 7 of these families have 401k's or any substantial investments in the stock market. They are "The Average American" living hand to mouth with none or little health insurance waiting for the other foot to drop. They are, the roofer, the concrete guy, the guy that works in the auto parts store or the several like me that used to have good paying factory jobs that are gone for good to foreign lands. I know your thinking it's the auto industry. The Midwest used to be the center for all manufacturing, Toys, appliances, furniture just about any durable good. they are all gone now to China or Mexico. Even the ones that have 401k's only make enough to put a minimum amount in them after paying more and more of their health insurance every year and their employer quit matching long ago. You know that service based economy that they keep talking about? It's making "The Average American" a whole lot poorer everyday. Lop the top 10% of wage earners off and then tell me what the average American makes a year and try to live on it and put something away for retirement. For every person that has money in the stock market there are 2 that don't. Which ones are "the average American"? |
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women are like tornados. In the beginning there's a lot of sucking and blowing. In the end, the car's gone, the house is gone..
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MFAWG
Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket
Karma: 31 Posts: 5720
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 06:53:03 AM » |
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OTOH, God Bless America, because if I type the word 'Average' in my little Google toolbar thingy, here's what I get as the first option:
average penile length
LOL...
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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hobbit
Tartan Jacket From: The Shire
Karma: 27 Posts: 1823
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 10:49:13 AM » |
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Well... I'd hate to live with the depression some of you do.
401k programs and other market investments make more money for retirement than any other mainstream investments. THAT is not meaningless is my point. And yes, these retirement programs are own by 'average Americans'. Its not a mirage at all.
I never claimed they would help you now, I never claimed a 'majority' of Americans benefited. Its not as important as the unemployment rate, but its not meaningless either - a simple point is all.
You seem to be confusing " The average American" with "The top half of middle America". Let me put it this way. When i walk out my front door and stand on my porch i can see approximately 20 houses that are owned by the occupant. Of these I can guarantee that no more than 7 of these families have 401k's or any substantial investments in the stock market. They are "The Average American" living hand to mouth with none or little health insurance waiting for the other foot to drop. They are, the roofer, the concrete guy, the guy that works in the auto parts store or the several like me that used to have good paying factory jobs that are gone for good to foreign lands. I know your thinking it's the auto industry. The Midwest used to be the center for all manufacturing, Toys, appliances, furniture just about any durable good. they are all gone now to China or Mexico. Even the ones that have 401k's only make enough to put a minimum amount in them after paying more and more of their health insurance every year and their employer quit matching long ago. You know that service based economy that they keep talking about? It's making "The Average American" a whole lot poorer everyday. Lop the top 10% of wage earners off and then tell me what the average American makes a year and try to live on it and put something away for retirement. For every person that has money in the stock market there are 2 that don't. Which ones are "the average American"? Clearly I'm using 'average American s' in my point. If you want to stick with a myopic definition of THE quintessential average American, you can have your opinion without argument from me. But its a bit of a red herring. As for all the other tangent arguments you're draggin into this.... you can have at your rant without involving me. |
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I've gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here.
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hobbit
Tartan Jacket From: The Shire
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Re: DJIA 10k on the horizon ?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 10:52:15 AM » |
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OTOH, God Bless America, because if I type the word 'Average' in my little Google toolbar thingy, here's what I get as the first option:
average penile length
LOL...
Certainly more interesting than the current arguments... But I'm at work and am afraid to click it - what does it say? Perhaps we can start a new debate.  |
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I've gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, keep me here.
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