Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2007, 07:33:02 AM » |
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Solely for the sake of argument:
1) I hit 2nd shot from 125, and watch it sail into the face of said muddy azz bunker, and stay embedded under the lip.
Can I declare the ball unplayable right then, and hit from the same spot taking the appropriate penalty ('Drop 3, hit 4)?
2) Actually, you can always do this, but the first ball is 'Dead' no matter the circumstance, right? 1) Yes. 2) Yes. You have to be careful though. You can't declare a ball unplayable and proceed under rule 28 if the ball is in a water hazard. You can proceed under rule 26-1 and do the exact same thing though. It's semantics but there is a difference and I'm sure someone, somewhere has been caught out by it. So, the "you can always do this" bit isn't quite accurate. |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2007, 07:48:44 AM » |
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Determining a ball unplayable from 120 yards out I guess is possible but sounds more like a Tin Cup moment. There is nothing that says you can't since you are taking the penalty stroke (and in match play lose the hole). The loss of hole penalty in match play (and the corresponding two stroke penalty in stroke play) is for breach of the rule. Proceeding under the rule incurs a single penalty stroke in both forms of play. |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Spanky
Full Metal Jacket
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2007, 07:54:31 AM » |
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Ahh, I'm not sure what I was thinking there. But I do claim that I don't know all the rules. That I am sure of.  |
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2007, 08:10:16 AM » |
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Ahh, I'm not sure what I was thinking there. But I do claim that I don't know all the rules. That I am sure of. Getting the ROG down even reasonably well requires significant effort. I actually enjoy the challenge and browse the decisions for fun. Even so, I'm a rank journeyman and if I step away for a while I start to forget what I do know. I started lurking on FIGs R&E about two months ago just for that reason. Some good rules heads there still even though they are in chronic need of a sense of humor.  'Cept Persnicketymon of course. He's wicked funny but, well, casting pearls before swine and all that.  |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Clive
Full Metal Jacket
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2007, 10:07:44 AM » |
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If you believe the ball to be outside a hazard, you can take an unplayable lie without even looking for/finding it. Rule 28: Ball Unplayable
The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable. If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
(a) Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or (b) Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or (c) Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole. Penalty for Breach of Rule:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.
28/1 When Necessary to Find and Identify Ball Deemed Unplayable
Q. A player hits his tee shot into a deep canyon. The player immediately deems the ball unplayable and plays another ball from the tee under the stroke-and-distance option of Rule 28. May a player deem unplayable a ball which has not been found?
A. Yes. A player may proceed under the stroke-and-distance option (Rule 28a) without finding his ball. However, since Rules 28b and c require reference to where the ball lay, the player must find and identify his ball in order to proceed under either of these options. |
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MFAWG
Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2007, 12:54:40 PM » |
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Solely for the sake of argument:
1) I hit 2nd shot from 125, and watch it sail into the face of said muddy azz bunker, and stay embedded under the lip.
Can I declare the ball unplayable right then, and hit from the same spot taking the appropriate penalty ('Drop 3, hit 4)?
2) Actually, you can always do this, but the first ball is 'Dead' no matter the circumstance, right? 1) Yes. 2) Yes. You have to be careful though. You can't declare a ball unplayable and proceed under rule 28 if the ball is in a water hazard. You can proceed under rule 26-1 and do the exact same thing though. It's semantics but there is a difference and I'm sure someone, somewhere has been caught out by it. So, the "you can always do this" bit isn't quite accurate. Wow, splitting the little red hairs from 'Down There', aren't we now??? 'Lost in hazard' and 'Unplayable' are 2 different things, but the end result is the same: 'Drop 3, hit 4'. (Can you tell I have that mantra down?  ) I'm pretty sure 'Unplayable' is solely in the eye of the beholder. I could (theoretically) declare any ball unplayable, not that that's a realistic scenario. |
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2007, 02:03:26 PM » |
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'Lost in hazard' and 'Unplayable' are 2 different things, but the end result is the same: 'Drop 3, hit 4'. (Can you tell I have that mantra down? ) The end result is the same but how you got there matters. Not necessarily as a point of dispute on the course but it's good to know these things. We want to make sure all our readers understand the difference. I'm pretty sure 'Unplayable' is solely in the eye of the beholder. I could (theoretically) declare any ball unplayable, not that that's a realistic scenario. Uplayable is indeed in the eye of the beholder. In fact, you don't even have to declare a ball unplayable aloud. Putting a new ball in play is sufficient. Declaring a ball unplayable that is known to be within the margins of a water hazard violates the rules of golf though. I'd be careful about verbalizing such an action during, oh, let's say a GHRC match.  It would be very interesting to know what a bona fide referee would do if he became aware of such a procedure. You can't declare ANY ball unplayable. A lost ball is lost (as you may know this term is defined under the rules and has specific meaning). An OB ball is OB. A ball in a water hazard is a ball in a water hazard. Those are facts. Given the facts of any particular situation there are definitely times when you're not allowed to proceed under rule 28 or you're only allowed to proceed under just one of its three options. Just because option (a) is seemingly the same as options granted under rules 26 and 27 it doesn't mean the rules themselves are interchangeable. There are good reasons why my little cheat described above is not permitted under the rules. Has to do with the (b) and (c) options of rules 26 and 28 vs. the lack thereof under rule 27. Whole other thread.  |
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« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 02:37:29 PM by Uisce Beatha »
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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MFAWG
Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2007, 03:53:53 PM » |
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I should have been more specific:
Any ball visible on the course can be deemed unplayable, but obviously a ball in the water or a ball lost aren't visible.
Theoretically, I could hit my 125 yard shot to 6 inches, and declare it 'unplayable', and 'Drop 3, Hit 4' from the 125...
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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Clive
Full Metal Jacket
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2007, 06:01:22 PM » |
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2) Yes. You have to be careful though. You can't declare a ball unplayable and proceed under rule 28 if the ball is in a water hazard. You can proceed under rule 26-1 and do the exact same thing though. It's semantics but there is a difference and I'm sure someone, somewhere has been caught out by it. So, the "you can always do this" bit isn't quite accurate. [nitpick] Under Rule 28, your line relief on which to drop would be defined by the hole and the location of your unplayable ball. Under Rule 26, that line is defined by the hole and the point on the hazard's margin at which the ball last crossed into said margin. In any one specific instance, it might collapse into the same result, or it might vary greatly. [/nitpick] |
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: Actual, real life rules question...
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2007, 07:39:16 PM » |
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Good point Clive.
Parallels my main point really. I make a statement like that and you come along and evaluate it at face value whereupon it falls down. That's the thing about the rules. You can't shortcut. Just because A leads to B which leads to C it doesn't necessarily follow that A leads to C. You have to take each circumstance on its own merits and apply the rules appropriately.
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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