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Rich Corinthian Leather Jacket From: The Land of 10,000+ Slushy Ice Rinks
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 09:34:12 PM » |
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Against it. Without wanting anyone (Jules) to take it the wrong way, I was taught that the better one wrote, the less aid the reader required to navigate the text. Most of the arguments in favor (in that Wiki entry) can be easily and more effectively avoided by better crafting of the sentence.
I.e., don't hate the comma, hate the game.
When someone writes well, the lack of commas is indeed fine. The problem arises when you are left to decipher what someone has written because they do not write well. I guess you could say that's another reason I'm "for it" (I know enough people who don't write well). I care, but I don't. In a way, that sounds odd, but it's true. Still, I voted "for it".
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He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 09:43:37 PM » |
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I thought the Pyrenees separated Spain and Portugal from France.
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi "Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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spacey
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: Group W Bench
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 11:51:43 PM » |
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Far be it for me to disagree with Clive, as he is both more educated, and likely more intelligent than I, but I am in favor of the serial/Oxford/Harvard/Libtard comma. It is my personal opinion that the additional comma prior to "and" indicates that what is mentioned is a separate, and to be considered separate, item in a list.
To readdress the examples in the wiki article: "I would like to dedicate this to Jim, Steve, Ed, my brother and my mentor" vs "I would like to dedicate this to Jim, Steve, Ed, my brother, and my mentor." The former leaves open the ambiguous possibility for my brother to also be my mentor, the latter, on the other hand, makes clear that my brother and my mentor are to be considered separate entities.
On the other hand, I agree that the hazard can be avoided by a better crafted sentence. I consider that, still, neither here nor there.
We live in a world that has poorly constructed sentences, and deep down in places I don't talk about at parties, I want that comma in that sentence. I need that comma in that sentence. We use commas to separate words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these commas as the backbone of separating items in a list. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain my grammar to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the clarity of the sentences I write, and then questions the manner in which I write them. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a copy of Strunk and White, and write a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2008, 03:47:25 AM » |
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Wow!!! Spacey undresses in front of God and everyone.
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi "Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Clive
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2008, 06:14:45 AM » |
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To readdress the examples in the wiki article: "I would like to dedicate this to Jim, Steve, Ed, my brother and my mentor" vs "I would like to dedicate this to Jim, Steve, Ed, my brother, and my mentor." The former leaves open the ambiguous possibility for my brother to also be my mentor, the latter, on the other hand, makes clear that my brother and my mentor are to be considered separate entities. I submit that, in that sentence, the "ambiguity" exists only with those people who expect a serial comma and don't get one. In real life, you seldom see a mixed group like those of the strained Wiki examples. It's far, far more common to see like items in a list (e.g. silver, copper, zinc and titanium). For that reason, I will grudgingly and very sparingly use a serial comma if I think the typical reader would otherwise be confused by the lack of one (which includes sentence structure, list composition and intended audience).
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 06:17:37 AM by Clive »
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stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2008, 06:55:43 AM » |
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I guess I'm for it. That's the way I was taught. Yeah, I was taught that way, too. I was taught 'without.' I was taught 'against.' Just wondering if you folks had opinions of your own or just meekly follow what you were taught? It is revolting to have no better reason for a rule of law than that so it was laid down in the time of Henry IV.--Oliver Wendell Holmes I was taught not to marry my cousin. I wasn't aware I could act on my opinion.
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Spanky
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2008, 09:30:06 AM » |
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I have always used the comma.
However down here in Texas any punctuation is optional. Spelling and grammar too.
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Walfredo
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2008, 09:35:53 AM » |
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I was also taught not to end a sentence, paragraph or a post with a preposition. But to each his own I guess so.
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For hither not, I am the stallion. Come fear, come love, I am the stallion. You know that I am the stallion, mang. I am, I am the stallion, mang. You know that I am the stallion, mang. I live, I walk, I am the stallion, mang.
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stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
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OfflineWe're doomed!
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2008, 09:37:01 AM » |
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I was also taught not to end a sentence, paragraph or a post with a preposition. But to each his own I guess so.
Where'd you learn that from?
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2008, 09:41:50 AM » |
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I was also taught not to end a sentence, paragraph or a post with a preposition. But to each his own I guess so.
Where'd you learn that from? "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi "Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Spanky
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2008, 09:43:22 AM » |
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I was also taught not to end a sentence, paragraph or a post with a preposition. But to each his own I guess so.
[Busy looking at avatar] Huh, what, you say something? [/Still busy looking at avatar]
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twoiron
Full Metal Jacket From: The Drawing Room
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2008, 12:43:29 PM » |
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Also, period goes within quotes.
Good call. I always forget that. I'm a period outside the quotes guy...
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"Nothing says sorry like a warm plate of bacon... or so I'm told"
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dystopia
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: Silicon Valley
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2008, 12:49:20 PM » |
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I still put two spaces after a period. And sometimes I'll bust out a four-dot ellipsis if I'm feeling saucy. (in homage to the Star Wars opening crawl)
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 12:56:59 PM by dystopia »
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twoiron
Full Metal Jacket From: The Drawing Room
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2008, 12:57:14 PM » |
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I still put two spaces after my periods. That's how it should be!
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"Nothing says sorry like a warm plate of bacon... or so I'm told"
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stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
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OfflineWe're doomed!
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Re: Serial Comma (Oxford/Harvard comma)
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2008, 01:13:40 PM » |
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I still put two spaces after my periods. That's how it should be! That's how I was taught. And FTR.........My cousin is hot!
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