Possible double hit from sand

JD, a stroke doesn't even have to make the ball move.


For example, a whiff is a stroke if your intent is to strike the ball.  In your scenario it doesn't matter if the club made contact with the ball on the initial movement.  All that matters is that you wanted to play the ball.

I understand the definition of a stroke, but 14-4 made no mention of a stroke. It specifically mentions a players club striking the ball more than once. If you watch the super slo-mo shots of bunker shots on television you'll see that the ball never touches the club on bunker shots, and shouldn't unless you're planning on skulling one over the green. It doesn't matter though, as that little 14-4/3 thingy clears up the question with the answer I expected. Thanks Clive.

Further, I guess it doesn't matter anyway because even if 14-4/3 didn't exist it could be a penalty under 19-2 for deflecting a ball in motion with equipment, correct?

A follow-up for you guys since I'm too lazy to look it up and because I know you two love to talk golf rules and this forum doesn't get much action:

I do not know that I hit the ball on my follow through. I know that I felt something hit the club on the follow through and it felt too muted to be a rock, but it could have been some other type of debris, or even a clump of wet sand or a very fast sparrow that just happened to be flying by at fast but sub-sonic speed. I did not hear any contact and the ball did not change direction in a visible way. No one else in the group noticed anything. However, I know I did feel something, and my hunch is that I felt the club making contact with the ball. Given the nature of the shot I was hitting and the other information I mentioned, in my opinion it is more likely than not that the club made contact with the ball.

Is this one of those rules that really comes down to the honesty of the player? I don't want to take penalties for things that I think might have happened unless I have to.

What standard of evidence is required for this kind of thing?

What would Rannulph Junuh do?

this is really silly, obviously most fatted shots the ball will move at least some minor amount before being struck by the club. a lot of shots in deep rough people hitting the grass 1st the ball will move some before the club strikes it.   these situations are almost imperceptible, but should still count according to this rule. 

Sorry JD.  I know you know the definition of a stroke.   

I was rushing out the door when I posted but my intent was to show that if missing the ball completely can constitute a stroke then it stands to reason a stroke which actually moves the ball would be considered as having struck the ball.  I figured there was a decision but the train doesn't wait for rules forum research.   Clive ftw 

Long day and ripping into aske requires more time than I have available.  Tomorrow maybe.   

lol (and at clive)  you all should know by now i push the similar situation hypothetical to the limit.   the point is, assuming the double hit, or whiff-and-hit  is UNintentional, how do you delineate which gets penalized and which doesnt?  certainly a player can call the penalty on himself as he sees fit in the spirit of the game. so say the player truly wants to be honest and just doesn't know whether his extra fatted shot moved the ball before he actually struck it... should he or shouldn't he? 

Sounds like you guys got this covered, but it reminded me of a time I did this in some nasty ruff. I was just trying to pop the ball out, which i did, but then I hit it again on the up swing lifting the ball almost straight up. My buddies still bring it up from time to time. It was pretty comical.